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Industry demands for cybersecurity professionals continue to expand at an accelerated pace. The National Initiative for Cybersecurity Education estimates over 300,000 jobs are currently unfulfilled in the United States, and an estimated 3.5 million jobs available globally as the world becomes more connected. If your business is connected to the internet and you collect data, you are in need of a qualified person to protect your infrastructure and data. Cybersecurity is a high-demand, high-wage area in desperate need of more qualified students.
In this Teachers Lounge we discuss building a Cybersecurity Program at your high school to get your students ready for future careers. TestOut's Travis Wilde teamed up with instructors: April Pelfrey (Georgia), Eli Cochran (Ohio), Lee Ann Pessoney (Alabama), and Jay Mathis (Virginia) to share how they built and grew their Cybersecurity Programs.
After our Teachers Lounge we had some customers reach out to our guest instructors with additional questions. You'll find the answers in our article Follow Up Questions from the May 20, 2021 Teachers Lounge: Ideas for Building a Cybersecurity Program.
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Travis Wilde
Alright, let's get started. Let's go around the group here. We're going to go ladies first, we'll go April, Lee Ann, Eli, and then Jay just introduce yourself. Tell us where you're at, where you've been teaching, and how long you've been doing it. Maybe a little bit about your background because I know you all come from a little bit different backgrounds.
April Pelfrey
Hi, my name is April Pelfrey. I teach at Central Gwinnett High School in Gwinnett County in Georgia. And I have been teaching for six years. This is the second career for me. I come in from the Department of Defense industry for about 15 years.
Lee Ann Pessoney
Hi, I'm Lee Ann Pessoney and I am from Madison, Alabama. I teach cybersecurity classes at James Clemens High School. And I've been teaching for about six years. And before that, I was a stay-at-home mom. I teach IT Fundamentals and Cyber 1 and Cyber 2 classes. And sometimes the occasional computer programming class.
Eli Cochran
I'm Eli Cochran, I teach cybersecurity at the Delaware Area Career Center, and I'm in my second year teaching. I like to say I'm a geek to my core, totally geek. I teach A+, Security+, and then we go through the Ethical Hacker course material.
Jay Mathis
Hi, I’m Jay Mathis and it’s my third year teaching. I spent 20 years in the United States Navy before that and about five of that as an information systems technician and I’ve spent the last 15 as a cybersecurity specialist. And then I transitioned over to health Care information security for a few years. Then I got my dream job teaching high school. I teach cybersecurity, three levels of computer science, and we teach everything up from IT fundamentals and PC Pro all the way up through Ethical Hacker. So, the students get three levels of cybersecurity at my school.
Travis Wilde
The great thing I love about this group here is that you guys have all done other things besides education. This is awesome. You represent a great diversity of students, schools, and what we're seeing across the nation. I didn't pick just because you were awesome. I picked you because you also represent a nice diversity in the group here.
So let's start off and let's pick somebody. Let's start with Lee Ann. Lee Ann, you are in the Huntsville area, down there in Alabama. And Cybersecurity is hot right now. So, tell me what you're seeing as far as your state, and what's going on. And then, let's talk about a couple of other states here represented.
Lee Ann Pessoney
Well, the FBI Cyber Command, they're moving their cyber command to Huntsville. So they're building this really huge building to house I think 4000 people or something. It's going to be really big. And most of the Cyber Command is here now, but they are in other smaller buildings until they're bigger building is finished. But there are a lot of cybersecurity jobs or information technology jobs here in Huntsville and the Madison area. And a lot of the students that will come out of the colleges here, such as UAH. They don't have to really leave Huntsville unless they just want to get away from mom and dad. They don't have to leave the city to go and get those really great, high paying jobs. And we have a lot of industry partners that will give our students internships or opportunities for internships. That's been really helpful, too. Although we thought our school would be immune to the ransomware attempts but last week, we failed to withstand the ransomware attack. Although it wasn't that bad, in a sense, that we didn't lose critical systems, so we still had our internet and all of that stuff. But we were slow in getting some of our servers back for our virtual desktops. They say that none of our data was taken, but, it's still new in the incident response process.
Travis Wilde
Yeah, there's a county, I won't name them but Jay you might be aware of them, in South Carolina and they were shut down pretty much last year. Their whole systems were messed up for the whole year due to ransomware attacks.
April, you're in Georgia, what have you seen as far as what your state's demand for cybersecurity? Actually, maybe step back a little bit and tell us about how you got involved with Gwinnett County, and building out their cybersecurity program. So, they came to you and said, “Hey, we have this need. We want to build out the cybersecurity program.” and what you did.
April Pelfrey
So basically, from my career experience, when I started teaching, I told them that I was interested in helping them start the cybersecurity pathway. In Georgia, we teach pathways, so it’s three classes, and then they take an into pathway test. So, we worked on building out that curriculum. And then, at Central Gwinnett, we piloted Cybersecurity, which is how we met Travis. We piloted it and now there are four other high schools that offer the cybersecurity pathway. And we're kind of building that out. We have about 26 high schools, so we still have some ways to go, but we're getting there. The beauty of cybersecurity is that every company that has any kind of computer network infrastructure needs a cybersecurity department. So, the jobs are always going to be out there. We have NSA open down in Augusta about five years ago. So, they really kind of brought the cybersecurity interests into the state of Georgia. But we see it in the news all the time now, that companies are getting hit by cyber-attacks. So cyber security jobs are growing. I think it's interesting when you talk to the kids about what their idea of what a cybersecurity job is, and what it really is in the real world. So, I like working on getting them to get their expectations right.
Travis Wilde
And I think you bring up a good point there. I think the average American public doesn't realize that any business, especially, if you're holding data, transmitting data over a network, you are vulnerable. And if you don't have your system (we're seeing this with the oil pipeline, right?). Your systems are vulnerable to attacks and ransomware. And this is a huge national problem that we don't have enough students training. That's why all of us are here to talk about cybersecurity, because there's such a demand, such a need for it. Jay, tell me about what's going on in Virginia, as far as cybersecurity pathways, job demand.
Jay Mathis
April, she hit kind of the same thing we're doing here. Especially in Montgomery County Public Schools we’re a four high school system. And I was brought into 2019 to stand up this program. And Travis again, that’s how we met, right?
But, at the time, the governor of Virginia had set these really broad expectations of what he wanted the cybersecurity programs to be. He said in 2018, by such and such date, year, or whatever, every school district in the State of Virginia wanted to have a cybersecurity program, but nobody really knew what that meant. It was still broad. There was the computer science discussion in it, and then there's the “okay, where do we start?” It's like April said, we got kids coming in to my Cyber 1 class, which is essentially, I teach at a PC Pro level. And then talking about when we're going to hack. So, we've had to temper the definition, if you will. But the interesting thing that's going on in Virginia is that they have, especially in south-west Virginia, where I teach around the Roanoke Area, Blacksburg Area of Virginia Tech. There's this huge technology corridor. That's kind of been born down through here all the way from, up in Northern Virginia and on the east coast, all the way down through. And it’s this huge thing where these companies are just kind of lining up across the state, from northern Virginia all the way down. And there's this corridor being born, where these companies are placing their headquarters in these smaller communities. And then there's this huge, huge need, almost like a black hole effect. Like, “hey, if you have technology experience, we’re sucking you into these job positions. That's where it is. And I was on a call this morning, and Lee Ann mentioned grants and things like that, we have a Go Virginia grant going right now with over 2000 companies where they're going to pay these kids while they're in high school, as sophomores, juniors, and seniors, $15 an hour to come work 500 hour internships. They want these kids in there. So, it's been really interesting, especially here in Montgomery County, it’s been like Christmas time for me. If I can dream it, you know, here’s the money to do that type of thing, here are the resources. So I'm like in a lab every day pouring and making potions about what we got to teach next year.
There's so much going on that, if a kid decides, “Hey, I want to go into the IT administration field.” or “I want to go into your computer science or engineering field.” I've got a class for that, and that's what's been really, really cool for us.
Travis Wilde
One of the big things we're seeing is educational industry partnerships becoming more relevant, more important. We're seeing higher level institutions creating, like the Virginia Cyber Range that you guys have there in Virginia. South Carolina has one. Eli, I don't know if you are part of the Ohio one that just came online. So, we're seeing a lot of these resources and funding being put into these resources and provide students the environment. I'm not sure, I haven't heard about if you guys are having more of a virtual Cyber Range down in Georgia or Alabama, but these industry partnerships are going to be more. And I always tell teachers and school districts, “those doors are going to be wide open. “And where you might have had some pushback and industry not really want to be a part of the educational model and systems. That's not the case with cybersecurity. There's such a demand. It's going to be, “what can we do to help facilitate it?” Right?
I want to jump to Eli. I'm going to hit you with the next question. I want to kind of pick your brains, but you're, I think you said two years teaching? Jay, how many years you've been teaching?
Jay Mathis
Well, technically 2.5 if you break it down on a semester thing, but about three.
Travis Wilde
I’m going to give you a little seniority over Eli. I want to talk about my experience on the TestOut side of things when people call in and say, “I want to create a cybersecurity [program], I think my kids will like it.” And how I answer that, but I want to pick your brain. If somebody were to come to you and say, “Hey, I see what you're doing, I saw you on LinkedIn. You know, it's a great program. What would be some advice you would give in creating a cybersecurity program for a brand-new school?” Now you're at a tech center, and that's a little bit different environment and so will get some high school [perspective]. What would be your advice to them?
Eli Cochran
Yes, I'm in a Career Center, so I pull high school students all over Delaware County, Ohio. So, we pull from all over the place. My thing is giving students opportunities. Jay, you kind of hit on it. The IT field is so vast, right? Like we think about cybersecurity, students can take that and go any direction with it. And April, I think you hit on that as well. Every company needs it, every industry needs it, so when we think about it from a teacher's standpoint, what do you want to start with? Well, there's so many things you can do, and where TestOut came in that I really liked about it, were the simulations. Students have this idea of, well, we're going to be hacking all day long in class. And then it's like, no, we're not. So, giving them those tools to actually show them what industry is and if they mess it up, they can reset it. You know that kind of thing, like doing virtual machines and that kind of stuff. Giving them a safe environment to what I call, flexing their digital muscle.
Travis Wilde
Yeah, awesome. April, what about you? You were kind of investigating different programs when we met at the NICE Conference, but what would be your advice to somebody brand new walking in? “Hey, I want to create a Cybersecurity program.”
April Pelfrey
My first advice would be, don't try to do it from scratch because it's already out there. Use your resources. And like Eli, we chose TestOut for the simulations and everything. And there's a bunch of resources that are out there that have the content, but you really need some of those hands-on, real-world experience type things. And so, that's where those simulations come in. I would also talk to them, and about setting up a small in-class virtual setting, too. So they get that hands-on inside the classroom, as well as those simulations. I think those two things together kind of go hand-in-hand for the kids to really get a good understanding of it. But to get them all interested because it's one thing, to just set them on the TestOut or any curriculum without that in-class, hands-on experience, you kind of need to make sure that you're doing both.
Travis Wilde
Yeah. And as much as I like to sell TestOut, TestOut all the time gets boring. Let's be honest, I mean, you could just open it up and we will do just TestOut all day long. But I like where you say April is making it more relevant.
Eli Cochran
I want to jump in here really quick. Something I did was we talked about connecting with industry partners. And I got on LinkedIn and posted, and a company found it and they donated three servers to us. So, finding some older gear from industry partners that are their end of life in it, but it's perfect for the classroom. And then setting up a virtual environment utilizing old enterprise gear is a perfect way to start and cheap, right? You can normally get those donated.
Travis Wilde
Right? And Lee Ann, tell me, I think you have a fun history here of how your program [started.] Tell us about it because April's like, Hey, you don't have to make them from scratch, but you kind of created it from scratch, didn’t you?
Lee Ann Pessoney
Yes, I was hired for the Madison City Schools, we only have two high schools, and, they wanted to start a cybersecurity program in the district, and so I was hired to do that. However, I was hired two days before school started and we were offering and launching these cyber courses. And so they started out with a Cyber 1 class. That was basically the prerequisite, which, what the description was, basically, security plus objectives. And didn’t really have any kind of beginner, like IT Fundamentals class. And so, when I got to class on my first day, I didn't even have computers. And so, when I asked, “how am I supposed to teach a computer class without computers?” They said, “well, you’ll just have to reserve the laptop cart. So, I was like, “Great!” So, I go and I reserve it, and figure out how to do that. And I go get the laptop cart, but it's just thin clients because it's all a virtualized environment. Then, I didn't know what I could do with a virtualized thin client. So, I just got on Google and Googled everything. Cybersecurity curriculum, cybersecurity games or anything. I came up with NICERC, it was called NICERC then, but now I think it's called cyber.org. That really saved me. It had the curriculum, but it didn't have that lab simulation environment. So, you still had that missing piece, especially since we didn't have the real computers. So I really just remember using TestOut in one of my college classes, and convinced my district to get TestOut for us. If we were going to use thin clients, then that would be the best solution. But that took months, so I just kind of tried to do some unplugged activities. And starting two days before class started, I didn't have time to really get any equipment for them to take apart or anything. I try to forget that first year. It was traumatic but somehow, the kids still learned something. They still learn, even though you don't have everything you need, because they're resilient.
Travis Wilde
And that's a good point, Lee Ann. It does take time, it takes a lot of what works and what doesn't work for you? What works and what doesn't work for the students.
Jay, I'm going to pick on you for a minute. I remember this district calling me from Virginia. And they're like, “Hey, Travis, we, we want to create a cybersecurity program.” And I'm like, “Great, what's the goal here?” “Well, we've got a bunch of 9th and 10th graders and we want them by the end of the year to take Security + CompTIA.” And I'm like, “Ah, that's rough. I mean, you understand what, that certification looks like?” “No, but that's our state standard.” So, tell me a little bit about how you build out your program because you've layered it and kind of just what you're seeing. Level one students, where did they start? And the end goal still in Virginia is a Security + but tell me how you built out your program and what it looks like in those different layers.
Jay Mathis
Yeah, just for the record, that wasn't me that called that time. I'm crazy, but I ain’t that crazy. It was interesting for me when I came on board. I came on board in the middle of a school year. Lee Ann was talking about two days before class. I got hired literally the last day of Christmas break before we were going to go back after the first of the year. So, there's like two days on a weekend there, where I'm walking in and like okay. I walked into this barebones kind of. We had desktops. That was a great thing, you know? So, we actually had computers. We at least had that.
I had heard when they were hiring me, they were trying to put this thing together. And they kept throwing out Security +, Security +. And I'm thinking, like, “No. We're not there yet, guys. I don't know if you've seen the Security + Exam, but we're not there.” So, I proposed a three-course pathway, and it was kind of one of those things where I’ve been very fortunate. And I am the senior cybersecurity teacher in the county. We have two more, one of them is in her second year. And the other one's a business teacher that's doing PC Pro with students, which has worked out really well this year for her. I kind of came in and I walked in on Monday morning at Blacksburg High School and the CTE director for the county, who has been great in this process, was like, “All yours, man. Go for it, what are you going to do?” “Well, I'm not start with Security +.” Started looking into the into your TestOut stuff, which full disclosure, I had never heard of TestOut before that first Monday morning when I walked in my first day as a teacher. But I sat down to it. I think, Travis, I reached out to you. I got myself an account and see if you remember that correctly. We kind of started digging in and immediately I knew that for Cyber 1, PC Pro was going to be the way to go. Then it just kind of built out from there.
In Virginia, I don't know if anybody else has this, but we are given 500 testing vouchers every year for Microsoft certifications. I think most, maybe most states probably exceed that but our whole school gets 500 certifications. That's everything from Office up to Security fundamentals. So what I decided to do was I said, “Hey, you know what? Certification is going to look great for these kids on a resume. Some of these certifications are worth some Ace credit for college. Travis, whether you know it or not, colleges are given credit for TestOut certifications. I've got I've got a girl at Campbell down in South Carolina right now. For network pro, they gave her four credits for university. She was the only freshmen that got into their cybersecurity program.
So I started there. I started basics and it's worked out really, really well. We come in first week. Hey, here's the PCs take them apart, see what's inside. We spend the first week kind of doing that, and then we jump over into TestOut. We start going through lessons. We start looking at the virtual labs and things like that. And everything we do in a virtual lab, of course last year, we weren't able to due to COVID, but this year, everything we're doing a virtual lab gets copied on the physical machines. And then my county, they just bought us all C.C.N.A. Labs, which are the three switch-to router configurations. So I've got a whole rack in my room now. IT at Virginia Tech had donated four servers to us. So I've got some stuff to play with there. But PC Pro, that's where we start. And if a kids' interests has peaked at that point, that I'll see them back for Network Pro, networking fundamentals in that second year, and then that third year, that's where the rubber hits the road. Security Pro and Security +. I've done Microsoft Security Fundamentals, Networking Fundamentals, and Security Fundamentals. And my Cyber3 class this year, and I know I'm rambling, but I get excited about this stuff. My Cyber 3 class this year was eight students. Again, because we're still growing the program next year, it's going to go big. But all eight past their Security Fundamentals from Microsoft. All eight have passed their Security Pro. And I’m venturing, I want to go crazy and ham on it and say, all eight are going to pass their Security pluses. The county’s bought them vouchers. They said, “Hey, you want to go for it? Let's go for it.”
They're getting the opportunity, at least. A student would never, in my opinion, never come into a first-year cybersecurity program, you can't expect a student to pass the Security + certifications. If you want them to leave your program with the knowledge that they need. Now, I can get anybody through a cram book. You know what I'm saying? I think most of us have kind of been there at some point in our careers. Right? But that's not what we want to do with our program. So we start PC pro level, and then we move on up. Now did try IT Fundamentals Pro with my cyber one this past semester, and the kids loved it. I mean, they have absolutely loved it. And they're going to sit for the CompTIA ITF. So, you know, we start there. And we build at three levels. And the expectation is by the third year they're going to go out with that with Security Pro and Security + certification.
Travis Wilde
In that instance, that I brought up, with the district in Virginia, I just brought it up because, like I said, you're in Virginia not South Carolina. But I get those calls all the time, like, “Hey, we’re looking for Security +.” “Are you looking at a 2 or 3 year program, would it be possibly a four year program because we don't get to that end goal right after that.” And I like that you brought up, whether that's an MTA certification, whether you're just using the TestOut certifications, or you’re going the CompTIA route, build it logically. We're going to have a starting point here, introductory concepts, and move it forward. Eli, same thing for you in Ohio, is that kind of the pathway? You're getting to the ethical hacker level with your kids. Right?
Eli Cochran
Yes. Jay, you were kind of repeating what my class is, right? It's the fundamentals that PC Pro within the first [year]. I just had my new students coming in, and we were talking to the incoming junior's for next year. And within the first two to three weeks of school we're tearing apart computers because about over half of them have never even opened up a PC. So, you think about these students coming in as juniors and never even opened up a computer, then to have them sit for a Security Pro, there'd be no way. You've got to always go back to those basics and those fundamentals and then bring them on up. We do the PC Pro and a networking course with our juniors. We're setting up the foundational knowledge with networking and the PCs. Then [with] the seniors, we hit with like an intro to cyber. This year, we had to kind of reverse a little bit because CompTIA changed up the 501, 601 stuff. So we kind of reversed things, but next year we'll be doing intro to Cyber, Security Pro, and then into Ethical Hacker Pro.
Travis Wilde
One of the things today that a lot of the times, administrators, district, state level people, they don't get is when we talk networking. I'm a big networking guy. If you told me, “Hey, you're going to teach a kid one course for me it would be our Network Pro. If you're going into cybersecurity, you have to understand networking, and have to have a good foundation there. If you don't, you're setting yourself up for not a not as much success.
Eli Cochran
Yes, networking is huge. Knowing IP addresses, knowing subnetting, that Network Pro definitely gets that taken care of.
Travis Wilde
So, going back to you Jay, Mark’s your district guy, right?
Jay Mathis
Yes, sir. Mark Husband.
Travis Wilde
I remember having a conversation with Mark, and the great thing about Mark and dealing with Jay, is Mike got it. He understood that this is a three-year program, this is a three-year commitment. I need to support Jay in building this out. And here we are year three, and you're saying, “Hey, we're going to have even more come back.” Yeah, it's going to take a couple of years to get the numbers that some of these district people [need.] And April, you're a good example of this. You build it out. You started with the one there at Central Gwinnett. How many high schools did you say you're up to now?
April Pelfrey
We have four high schools now.
Travis Wilde
I know talking about the foundational knowledge, your district is looking at possibly expanding out IT fundamentals to even more kids at a younger age. And really that's what's really going to help accelerate this Cybersecurity push. If we can get eighth and ninth grade to where they're doing IT fundamentals. So by 10th, 11th 12th grade, they're getting to where Eli's pushing them into the Ethical hacker, the CySA stuff. So that's exciting for me to see some of these programs develop.
April Pelfrey
We start with seventh grade, actually, so our seventh graders take an Intro to Cyber class now in Gwinnett County.
Travis Wilde
That's awesome. Don't tell anybody but I've said that TestOut that needs to develop that middle school Intro to Cyber. They might watch this and hear that.
Lee Ann Pessoney
We are just now writing and an intro to cyber for middle school. We're writing our state standards now for cybersecurity, and we are writing a separate middle school program. So that way, they have that pathway.
Travis Wilde
Yeah, exactly. That foundational knowledge and the interest, right? And here's what it is. We’re not hacking all the time.
Lee Ann Pessoney
And it’s not just programming because before they were trying to say that cybersecurity was this programming class. And the teachers were only Computer Science teachers, and they're forced to teach the cyber portion. And they would get to my class, and they’d say, “Yeah, we took a cybersecurity class in middle school.” And I'm like, “Awesome, what did you do?” And they're like, “We did scratch.” And I'm like, “That’s not cyber.”
Travis Wilde
Which don’t get me wrong that programming, it's great.
Lee Ann Pessoney
Yeah, it definitely is a part of it, but not all of it.
Travis Wilde
Right.
Travis Wilde
For me, you know, one of the reasons why I love Cybersecurity is that it's bringing back that CS and IT, all into one. You have to understand both how the software is working and developed. And also, you have to understand how the infrastructure is, right? A really good cybersecurity analysts is going to be able to understand both. So, let's see, what questions do we want to jump here? What challenges are you guys still facing? So you guys are a couple of years in here, for most of you, what are some of the challenges you're facing still?
Eli Cochran
I’m a new teacher in a new program. When I got into the program, they were just retiring and old networking lab, changing it over to cybersecurity. So, for me it’s just building industry partnerships. That's my big thing right now. There’s a lot stigma behind cybersecurity and companies with bringing in high schoolers and that kind of stuff. So, for me, that's been my big struggle, but I actually just had a conference call with a big bank here in Ohio today, and it’s looking really positive, So that's for me, that's my struggles.
Travis Wilde
Jay, do you have any struggles?
Jay Mathis
I think for me it's with any growing program, you want your numbers to be good. But it's also just kind of tempering expectations as to what the program is, that's been my biggest one. People get excited, especially in my communities around here, parents get excited when they see cybersecurity on their kid’s course selection list. But, the kids come in fired up to hack someone's cell phone on day one but now we're taking apart PC’s this week. That’s been a challenge. But it's a good challenge to have because we're all professionals, and we're all able to explain why those things are important. You know, why is it important to understand the workings of a PC? Why is it important to understand what IP addressing is and these types of things. But as far as like being supported by the school system, by my school, by parents of students, it's been great. The equipment availability has been great. TestOut has been an absolute Savior especially during COVID times. I mean, virtual labs, hey, knock yourself out, do it as many times as you want. I haven't really had anything that's been like, I'm not going to be able to do this because of this challenge. I think the challenges I've had are actually really good. They’re positive. Being able to grab a student's attention with PC Pro and keep it for three courses, that's a good challenge to have in my book. But as far as curriculum and stuff like that, man, we've been good to go. I try to temper my own expectations for my classes just to fit everything I want to do. Because we're in TestOut, then the next thing I know we're in the cyber range for three days. And oh no, I forgot these lessons, I have to do. It's been good that my challenges have been positive challenges. So, nothing really negative from me.
Travis Wilde
April, and then I'm going to ask Lee Ann because I know Lee Ann had some challenges.
April Pelfrey
I think are our biggest challenges right now is that you're kind of stuck. You can only grow the program so far because I can only teach so many classes during the day. And then, we talked about, four of our 26 high schools teach it, and it's finding those teachers that can teach that content. Just like with computer science, Cybersecurity has its own little beast. Finding teachers that are familiar with the content or are willing to learn that content is a struggle so that the programs can continue to grow. We can get the kids in because it is not hard to get them in. You just say cybersecurity, and they're automatically thinking they can hack stuff. And so, you bring them in but you get two classes full. I teach five different classes. The two classes of cybersecurity is all I have in my schedule, and if that fills up, that's it. So I think our biggest challenge is finding those teachers that are going to teach the content.
Travis Wilde
Finding the teachers. That's a huge one in the computer science realm, as well.
It's interesting, you know, the background you guys come into as second careers. We need more of those. That's just the reality. Lee Ann, you had some pushback with your district, didn’t you? Or school system or it was just getting the equipment to begin with?
Lee Ann Pessoney
That I didn't really have pushed back from the district it was more educating them on what we needed and with just coming in abruptly I wouldn't find out what I need until it was already an emergency. And the district doesn't work on “right now.” The turnaround time may be months. Now I have the equipment that I need when it comes to computers. So now I have these really awesome beefy computers, it's great. But the lab content or the lab component for our classroom is still lacking. And I think it's because we just don't have enough room in my classroom and were maxed out on extra rooms. I don't have an extra space to have a lab to set up. Like Jay was talking about the C.C.N.A. equipment, that would be awesome. I just don't have the room for it. And I had mentioned before that I have a bunch of industry partners that would give me any kind of equipment, but I just have to say, I can't take it right now because I don't have room. So that's been disappointing because I feel like the kids are missing out on that really awesome hands-on experience and all the cool stuff that we can do. And you can get lost in doing the cool stuff. And you realize that you’re behind. You're going to take this certification exam at the end. So that's been challenging.
And also, with starting a program, you are doing so many things because you're starting everything from scratch. I feel like now at six years, I am somewhat ready. I haven't even thought about the ethical hackers so I'm not even going there because I just now have it to where I have the buy in from the students. So, it's a slow-going process. I know where I want it to be, but I know it's going to be awhile. And they like to put other things on you like the student organizations. I'm also the FBLA sponsor. Then you post CyberPatriot teams. I'm cool with that, but then just the extra other stuff.
Travis Wilde
I want to just re-emphasize one thing you mentioned, and I love the term buy in. You have to have student buy in. You have to have administrative buy in. You have to have parent buy in. Counselor buy in is kind of easier like, “Oh, that's that sounds like a fun computer class. Go take that one.” So that would be easy but students, parents, and administration, it's one of the big keys to, at least for my opinion, the programs being successful, to have all three of those. I love that you brought that up, Lee Ann,
Let's go back. I want to finish on what are some of the fun things you're doing. Eli, I know you just did a capture the flag event. But let's go back, Lee Ann that was a lot you got going on. And I know April does cheer stuff. So, once again, you guys are involved with a lot. Just give me the laundry list.
Lee Ann Pessoney
I used to be the only cyber teacher for both high schools so I would go back and forth. In the beginning, the first two years, I was going back and forth each day. So, teaching classes at one high school in the morning, and then at the other high school in the afternoon. I had several Cyber Patriot teams at both high schools. And then as part of my duties, I also tried to get sponsors or teachers to sponsor Cyber Patriot teams in the middle school level for the feeder schools. I would have to try to go and find out which teacher would be willing to give up their afternoons and be this awesome Cyber Patriot coach. Here in Alabama, you have to be a part of a student organization for your program to be a part of the career tech. So, I chose FBLA and I had to had to do that. That is typically done during school because we had a power hour for lunch so we could have meetings during schooltime. That way I could have afternoons free for Cyber Patriot. And every now and then, I would have a capture the flag team. If I had students that were interested, and we would try to find places to compete. And I'm sure you guys too have to write a lot of recommendations because you have students that are getting internships. I think this is the time of year when you just write recommendations for scholarships, and internships, and all that. Yeah, I guess when you actually kind of start putting in a list, it seems like it's a lot.
Travis Wilde
You know, it's interesting. All the national competitions, like FBLA has recently added a cybersecurity competition. Skills USA added a cybersecurity BPA TSA. They all now have cybersecurity competitions as part of what they are doing. Eli, tell me about your capture, the flag event.
Eli Cochran
Yes, we just did our first in lab capture the flag this last week, so it was super cool. Got to run through it with my juniors, actually. We had a judging system, Virtual Machine, and they were attacking a Windows XP VM. And they loved it. So, I created at all, framed it around like an escape room idea. So I gave them the hints that were encrypted, and then I also brought their team leads out into the hallway. So it was like a telephone game, too. So, they had to communicate back to their team of what was going on. Yeah, they loved it. I'm actually getting ready, on Friday I'll be running my seniors through it for the first time. So it was a lot of fun. They really enjoyed it, and it was like free software on GitHub. So I mean, it was great.
And then we do BPA, we do Cyber Patriot, and then we also do MITRE embedded collegian capture the flag. This year they got third place and were attacking drones. So, it was pretty cool.
April Pelfrey
We're doing Cyber Patriots and we have a Drone Club and next year, I'm starting a PC repair club. We do PC repair to help our technical coordinators there in the building. Kind of helping the teachers fix their computers and stuff like that.
Travis Wilde
That's awesome. That's a growing thing. Jay, what about you in Virginia, what are you doing?
Jay Mathis
I’m the Technology Student Association Advisor. And I do work a little bit with Skills USA too for my kids that are interested in doing the helpdesk competition that Skills USA does, which they really enjoyed the past couple of years. We just did the Radford University CTF, because they're right here local to us down the street. We had a top 10 finish in that. My Cyber 3 class had a top 10 finish which I was really happy about. It was 230 teams, and they finished tenth so, I was really excited about that. They loved it and had a great time. We're going to do our first Cyber Patriot this coming year. We've done Cyber Start. I had 12 students qualify for the national round for Cyber Start, which I thought was great, because that's primarily them working on their own for a lot of stuff. They did really well with it. Let's see, I coach girls JV softball, and I coach football, and that's pretty much my weeks in a nutshell. I also coach our e-sports teams as well, so that's been really, it's been a really huge, I use that as a recruiting tool.
Travis Wilde
How do you guys do that? Like, I see April at the soccer game. She's a cheer coach, and I'm like, come on, really? I mean, who has that time?
Jay Mathis
The thing about it that's been helpful for me, and I've talked to a lot of CTE teachers that are county in the same boat, I’m at this season in my life where I can do these things. My kid’s in college, I retired from the military, meddled around in health care for a while. But I'm the type of person, where you see a need, you fill it kind of dudes. It's been really cool for me. I once said, if I became a teacher, I wanted to coach. That's been my two dreams: to teach high school, and coach sports. I'm getting to live both out. When I think of it, I'm living my dream job here right now. So, I'll go through those extra things, and we've been very successful with them.
And we have a similar thing, like Lee Ann was talking about. We call it Power Hour in our school, where the students get time during the lunchtime to come do some of these extra things. It's built into the schedule. And that's a huge help to not have to have so many afterschool things going on. The students are all there in school. They come together. They do their thing. That's been huge for the clubs and the technical organizations to be able to meet. And then, after school you get to go play sports and throw around a softball for an hour and a half. It's fun. Everybody kind of talks about it how you do too much, you do too much. No, it's great. You just get in, you get it done, and the students benefit from it. I’ve loved building relationships, especially with TSA and the e-sports. Like, those kids are kids that you normally don't see on a football field, a soccer field, baseball or softball fields. Those are kids that have, up until the last few years, they didn't really have a community. And we're creating community now, for these kids, it's changing lives, And that's what's so awesome about it to me. You've got these e-sports kids coming in there. I've got college, e-sports coaches. I've got college computer science professors e-mailing me weekly, saying, “Hey, you got anybody that's this level, or above on League of Legends? If you do, I love to talk to them. We're offering $27,000 scholarships right now. Hey, do you have any Rocky Leaguers out there, this level or above, because, hey, I really need to fill out my teams for the next few years, and we'll give them a $30,000 scholarship. These are all kids that would never, ever, ever, 2, 3, 4 years ago, would never have had that kind of opportunity. You're bringing them in there and they're building these friendships and these communities that athletes build and they’re used to building because they're out there. But, now, you got these kids that that didn't have those connections, that have those connections, right?
It's awesome to me and I'm willing to do the work. You know if it means I'm creating that kind of community with my students, it's no problem for me to do it. On the flip side of it, I can go hit some softballs around a softball field with some great girls and I can go coach a defensive line with some great guys. It's a great balance, but again, this might be the military background talking, but there's no extra burden on my time than when it was when I was working cybersecurity healthcare. Honestly, if we're looking at, I’m putting in less hours than I was working in cybersecurity in healthcare.
Travis Wilde
The big thing with all of you, and probably, the reason why you're still teaching. In any teacher, you don't ever do it for the money, right? If you were doing it for the money, you'd go do something else. You do it exactly for what you're saying Jay. It's the relationships. It's the mentorships, it's, it's the potential that, “hey, you're good at that, you're an all-star in this area. You're not going to be the star quarterback. But yeah, you can be an all-star in the cybersecurity team, competition, and whatever involvement it is. They're gifted and talented and let's accentuate that and help them succeed.
*Content was edited for length and clarity.